joining us is stefan. thanks for joining us. how much can we discount hurricane sandy and how much might it be of benefit in terms of helping to harden rates? >> well, as far as it looks now, it's not really an event basically having a big influence on rates. we did have a lot of capital in the reinsurance industry and in that regard, plenty of capacity. so estimated 17 to 20 billion for insurance losses whether not really be enough to have a real impact on pricing. but i think psychologically, it will help to shape rates going forward and especially also next year into july with renewals in the u.s. and worldwide having a small positive impact. but generally the average reinsurance rate environment will not change based on sandy loss only. >> what's your take on the insurers generally speaking, do you like them as group, what are issues they need to face to see share outperformance? >> it will some quite some time to get some decent estimates. there's uncertainties in many regards and clearly estimates my tend upwards from the